City Council – October 29, 2019 – Part 1 of 2


presentation this morning. I
would like to call upon the mayor to come forward for the presentation. » Thank you very much. It’s a source of great pride to have with us
this morning some of the athletes from the GTA who have
moved here to do their training. I’m so happy
they could be here. And they are joined by the CEO of the
Olympic Committee and also another Olympic committee member. A
letter posted in the athletes village. We are today celebrating and recognizing
them. It’s no small feat to make it in the pan M games.
Having an opportunity see not only are athletes in action but also to seek other athletes. On your
behalf I want to offer our congratulations to the
athletes and I will introduce them by name in
a moment. For the incredible hard work. It is something that
is real testament to their determination and discipline.
These men and women are all people born from our great city.
They are heroes who inspire us. I think we are
really lucky to have people like this who
represent us and reps in a country inner-city so well and
it’s an honor to have all of you here today to be with us. These athletes had
to travel a long way. The other good
fortune through the Olympic Committee that they were able to wear those. Maybe I ask that
we’ve got metals on display here. I will ask if
they can stand up when I mentioned their names so you can recognize them. To you all congratulations and
thank you for representing us so well not just our country but our
city and we hope you’ll continue to live here and continue to bless us with
your talent. And beg your friends to come here also. Thank you very much.
Does anybody want to say a word here? Anybody dying to
make a speech in front of the Toronto city Council? Thank you
very much and congratulations again. » Thank you and congratulations.
I will now call for motion to confirm the minutes. Do you have a
motion for the minutes for our last meeting? .
» Section 27 2.10–not that one. October 7 second and third 2019.
» All those in favor. Gary. I will now call upon the committee chair to introduce (Inaudible) I move
that report for meeting nine be
presented for consideration. This was speak a very important meeting. They
are all important in the sense (Inaudible) that we
debated it. Major trends agreement marks on
the most significant steps forward in terms of who cooperation we
all need of course was happening in
Toronto City Hall. An opportunity we have the province aligned with the number
of things that we want to do together to build
transit in the city and the federal government. As a result of the
agreement if you see fit to prove it over the next day or so, we will have
almost $30 billion invested by other governments in Toronto transit.
This in turn will free up up to $5 billion to invest in
(Indiscernible). The agreement also ensures that Toronto the city of Toronto
retains ownership of the. The province will also cover cost for software projects are
covered by the agreement. This agreement I believe in executive committee
concurred. It’s a good project for the city as a whole. We heard from
those rodents and their local counselor and we made amendments to the requesting
questions that we will have an ongoing basis. To mitigate the concerns that
were raised by the residence. Beyond this groundbreaking
transit agreement, a program called modern
(Indiscernible) it’s a five year plan but I hope the Council will
feel fit to prove today. $750 Million in savings over the next (Indiscernible).
52 to 20 mainly by doing away with leases the coming to an upcoming year. Lease outside the city. Including real focus
on affordable housing wherever we can. Maximize the city’s key Civic Center as well as the City Hall Metro Hall. We will no longer lease outside
space from private landowners. Accommodate up to 5600 more jobs
by modernization renovation and updating the buildings. This
will allow us in turn as well as at the same time have those jobs more equitably spread the city. The
program when fully implemented will decrease the city overall
footprint terms of office space by 25%. This is kind of thing
that I think people expect the
government to do at a time of scarce resources. Residents
and businesses expecting us to do modernize our office space.
Also create a city building opportunity. I look forward to the debate and I will say that including in particular on
the transit I think people should think back to where we where a year
ago. Think back to where we where a year ago we had the government
(Inaudible) upload the subway. Giving every indication they
were going to take arbitrary steps. We sent
our professional public servants who I want to thank today for
the fact they went to 50 meetings from the
province have come forward with agreement that I commend to you for approval today that I
think is a significant step forward on the thing that we are all elected to
do. Which is to work with the government. Try and fill as best we can transit built for
the people of Toronto. I think this
is a once-in-a-lifetime chance. For the three governments all in line say yes we are in
for this we want to get this built move forward get it done.
I look forward to discussion on this later today.
» Thank you. Motion to do specific
appointment committee. Thank you. Good morning everyone. Counsel Thompson your promotion to introduce the
committee report? » Yes. Good morning. The
report for meeting number eight of
economic and community develop listed on the agenda be presented for consideration. I
would like to draw members attention to two
specific items that are on the EDC agenda. EC 8.6 strategic priorities culture investment 2022-2024.
Look at the strategic priorities for the next five years. The priorities
are here to show what the EDC strategy is in terms of what were going
to do. It also talks about the opportunities
that there’s a growing inequality growing the city and
challenges we need to act and be decisive
in terms of how we address some of these particular issues. Looking at the rising property concept
threatens to displace Toronto’s cultural venues and places for
artistic work. Need to take a look at peer cities opportunity in terms of to
attract and to bring more businesses and
investments to the city of Toronto creating this vibrancy
that we need with respect. Need to
be looking at a couple programming’s in terms of how to
ensure the cultural workforce become more inclusive in a very
diverse city. These new opportunities through this
particular port are the principles that we looking at over the next five
years. Increase opportunities for all Toronto’s who live in
the city. Reflects Toronto’s diversity .
Culture to maintain and create new accessible sustainable space
for Toronto’s creative sector in this growing city and three,
developing greater talent strengthen Toronto’s
cultural center workforce and increase diversity. I cannot stress that
enough. With inclusion of representation in the sector. One thing that’s
not on the report that we are working on is opportunities
small medium-size enterprises that something that we want to look at while creating
the center of the Lexus. Great opportunity in
this particular area. The other area
I want to take a look at is a realignment of the two significant cultural
grants program. Looking to see how we can revitalize this cultural grant
program. The museum grants program to ensure that through these two programs, that
we are talk about how that could benefit everyone will be
addressed. This is through looking at cultural
festival grants, supporting significant festival of other
events across the city getting a lot more calls for assistance
by many organizations. We know this is a city where lots of festivals are held during the
summer months particularly winter months. It benefits the
city greatly. Also looking at cultural access in developing
programs for to ensure that programs are able to operate
here year-round programming culture to champion
a creative talent that exists in the city. We are looking at all of these
through the EDC lens and this will help us bring that vibrant art scene
and create more opportunities in the city to ensure that the city continues to be the envy of
many around the world. Thank you.
» Thank you. Counsel, your promotion.
» Good morning. The report general licensing committee. Be
presented for consideration. » Thank you. Counsel give a motion. » Be presented for
consideration. Two items. An update on flood
mitigation and damage repair. Very important discussion. Climate
change. Ability to proctor precious water assets. Thank
you very much. » Thank you. Counselor you have a
motion. » Thank you. » You have a motion to counsel report. » Thank you. You have a motion
to induce report. » You have a motion to Introduce a report? » Motion carries. Are there
any declarations of interest. You must also file an
interest with the city clerk. » On page 5.
» I will now call for petitions. Are there any petitions at this time?
Counselor Thompson. » I have one on its way. I want to know if I can reserve
a spot so I can introduce it..
» Yes. Just let me know. » I will now review the order paper we have
three preferred items on the agenda. Section 37 not received approval. NY 8.4 operation these will be
the first items of business today. Only if the mayor’s key items are submitted. » Thank you. Release item DX
9.6 and DX 9.7. » On page 4 counselor releasing DX
9.6. All in favor? Counsel releasing.
All in favor? Carried. 8.8. » Thank you. Page 5. Counsel, 110. » Recorded vote please. » The item is adopted. On page 5 recorded vote. The item is
adopted unanimously. Thank you. » I would like to hold (Inaudible). » I want to hold ETA 8.10.
» Thank you. Page 6.
» I would like to hold that. » Page 7.
» I can release pH 9.1. All in favor. Recorded vote. The item is adopted unanimously. 24 in
favor. Page 8. Sorry– pH 9.4 page 7, favor. Recorded. The item is adopted unanimously.
» I would like to hold NY nine point.
» Page 8. .13 demolition application. Thank you. Page 9. I would like to hold T9.4 (Inaudible). (Inaudible). Thank you. Page 10. » I would like to hold item TE 9.8. (Inaudible). » Page 11. » One second please. Counselor Crawford I
understand you have a motion to place at this time? » In accordance with section 27 remove (Inaudible). » All in favor. Carried. » I have been advised by the clerk
I need to read it. Bring the audit committee agenda forward. » Thank you for the question.
That is correct. Because of the proximity of the audit it did
not make this agenda. Otherwise be
dealt a month from now. » Thank you. I don’t do this lightly. I think that our infrastructure is
in error and not allowing this item to proceed. This will be
our last chance. Our last chance.
We hired a consultant at great expense. We didn’t
have the expertise and house to do a review that the mayor asked for last winter. I asked for a similar review. His went forward. I consultant said
do a pilot. Here your technology is available. That went to
city. Much much smaller pilot. One that won’t
necessarily give us the information we need and
certainly won’t get the level of support to the
people of Toronto that need it. As we saw last year. That might not be a
big deal for many of you but most of you represent areas the
sidewalks. Most of you do. That’s why I don’t
really expect this to pass. I bring it forward because for the
areas of the city with the highest proportion of
pedestrians, meaning the sidewalks that in
the most used they go almost unusable after the winter with major snow falls. Because of a handful that don’t. The safety
issue was not enough for trip and fall, there is an enormous
accessibility issue at play here. Last summer my daughter
was in a stroller. I’m pretty
able-bodied I can climb through snowbanks. On several occasions
after that same major snowfall I would be walking my daughter the road
clearing helps me on my bike but not well in pushing a stroller.
I had to physically lift up the stroller with my daughter and it
full of groceries and walk it and 10 or 1530 feet through a snow
bank. I can do that. I’m fortunate enough that I can do that. There are
many in our city that cannot. There are many that live in these neighborhoods that
cannot. The mayor was right in putting forward request for
staff to review this pilot. I’m afraid
that we are not being ambitious enough enrolling out the pilot. 96 of Toronto’s agree with me.
Thank you. » This item was debated
thoughtfully and thoroughly at committee. We decided to have counsel take
this with him to his college at budget Mitty so
he could get on the agenda. This is a funding issue to a divisive
debate here that will go on for hours at the inner
suburb versus–is unhealthy. Those are debates from counselors past.
This is something we don’t want here. If you stop bringing this
to the Council is nothing but a Trojan horse motion. Which we
are going to talk about. The disparities
of the public policy issues across city. I strongly urge
you not to bring on the Council floor I urge counsel Layton to
take her to budget committee funding shortfalls are there in
the bring it back 2020 budget debate.
» Thank you. Deputy Mayor. » Thank you. I will also echo the counselor’s
concerns. This was discussed extensively in committee. If
there was such an interest by the whole counsel of the course and a lot
more members of counsel show up at the standing committee. Secondly, I
want to correct the record for counselor Layton this
report did cost a lot of money and my point was the should I’ve been
done by staff because with many staff doing policy and also I think
report consider spreading something like
$200,000 seems to be my recollection, we could have saved up money. My third
point that I raised was a winter maintenance report that was
taken out of capital. Which that’s another counselor raise the issue before. This is
second time that this happened. But I will say
this, it was discussed at committee. Visibly important. Counsel
Layton may not understand the arrangements in other places
outside downtown in the suburbs. We have trouble pushing around
baby carriages all over the city even when they are
plowed so this is not to say that
there’s some sort of special problem in the downtown with
regard to pushing things and people with mobility problems
it’s completely false. Those problems still exist the suburbs. It is
completely or fundamentally lack of understanding of the rest of the city when that statement
is made. But we had that discussion in committee. I think the
counselor is right this is a budget matter and in many
ways should be dealt with there. » Thank you. Counselor perks.
» Want to pick up a thought that the deputy mayor just had which is Toronto has
problems navigating the streets in the winter. If you have a
walker or scooter or stroller you walk with a cane. If you’re carrying
a heavy load he says well we don’t want to look at the pilot because there are
other places in city where the problems also. If that’s the case, we
should be taking strong action right across the city to make sure that
Toronto are not slipping and falling during the winter or
worse, baitork on the road because the sidewalks are
impassable. There are several streets in my
ward where there are long stretches of privately held
properties, sometimes held by institutions
even by the school board and those don’t get cleaned in a timely fashion
sometimes these are hills. You have people who literally
cannot get out of their homes and up the street to the bus stop. They are
housebound. Because they have some ability challenge
or their small children they have to take with them. We claims take seriously
the fact that our streets are not safe for pedestrians right now. The
counselor and the mayor have done work to try to deal with a particular hazard
that happens in the winter. And instead of this counsel having
that information in front of it, so that we as the Council
can give directions to city staff to prepare something so
that we can debated with information in front of a the project some
members of this counsel just wanted swept away. It is disingenuous in the
worst way to say all just deal with it at budget when there has been no policy
debate at this counsel based on the study that the
committee had in front of it. We decide policy. Give
directions to staff to cost the implication of the policy and
the debated at budget time. The actions
taken at the infrastructure environment
committee mean that we will not be in a position to do that. It’s very
deliberate. It’s a very deliberate effort to keep public
safety off the agenda away from the budget away from
our ability to actually invested taking people
with disabilities able to walk our streets or travel our
streets during the winter. It is scurrilous.
» Thank you. Counselor Fletcher. I’m going
to look that up now, scurrilous. » Hashtag scurrilous. I just
want to say for a moment about mobility. I’m really surprised to hear the
deputy mayor said that people cannot move around and sidewalks anywhere
else even when they are cleared. That’s a shock. I wonder why
were clearing them if that’s the case in other places.
That is the case, I think we need to hear that. In the debate.
Because we are spending a lot of money and people in North
York cannot get on the sidewalks to get down the street to get the bus then
that should be considered a very large problem here by the city
Council because we’ve never been told that before. We’ve not
been told that officially. I just want to
say I’m going to talk about a seniors there is a program still in the old city of
Toronto. Which is the only place that has no snow clearing East York
has no snow clearing. A senior can
get the sidewalk late in front of their home because they don’t
have the ability to do that. However, once you
sidewalk is clear to part of your home, you cannot move up
and down the street because it doesn’t mean anybody else’s
sidewalk is clear. We do have something where you go out and people have 48
hours then I get a ticket for Micah to find the city might come and do it but as far as getting
mobility in the wintertime and having everybody move around,
then this is a real problem. Can’t just have right in front
of you 25 feet cleared and nowhere
else. That’s the first thing. The second thing we haven’t had it chance to
debate this unless counselor Layton’s motion passes but
previously I’ve been in touch with transportation. About
–*CUSTOM* we are debating now if we should bring the motion
forward. Not into the substance. » I bring it forward because this
unfairness completely not helping us here. This unfairness for
citizens many probably 800,000 of them, but they are not having this counsel debate this
issue. The former East York has no clearing it was moved down to
the boundary in order to cover both 20 and 21. I was told it’s more
specific. Folks, we all have warts and try to make it more
specific. I also, it’s very hard, Madam Speaker, the
chair of the committee be so disparaging about the city of Toronto the
old city and say, we do have bike lanes we don’t have
everything else you’re not having snow clearing and I find
that very seriously. I’m extremely extremely
disappointed. » Let’s talk on the motion.
Counselor. » This happens year after year after year. This really is
a reflection of reps and days of democracy here. When you
hearing from counselors in the old city of Toronto including myself now.
Is that legacy of city of Toronto is that this is a
genuine and real concern by residents in our communities.
This packs our lives every single day and every single night. During
the winter season. We live in the Canadian city and as a counselor
pointed out this is our last opportunity to address this
coming season. It’s getting cold out now. It’s getting colder
the next month. It’s going to happen. This could be coming
days when accessibility and safety is not just rhetoric we
are using it legitimately is a concern. There seniors who have
mobility challenges that topic and down the sidewalks. Imagine
yourself if you in a wheelchair, imagine yourself right now, if you’re listening
hypothetically, the mayor, when residents were outraged about
the most standard of snow clearing last winter, stood
up and say were going to address this and deal with this. Summary people
here today cared about it and if you look at this, does it look like they
care at all? Whatsoever. I’m not convinced. At all. If we
really care about the safety and accessibility of our residents,
we would budget for this year. We would ensure that we do what
many other Canadian citizens do which is recognized we have a
Canadian city that has a lot of snow. That gets in the way
people’s ability to get around to get the school to work to get
a places of faith to their families and friends there
also is a direct threat to the safety every single day. That’s what
counselor was arguing that’s what I am arguing that’s what my
colleagues are going. With respect to counsel office I think that was
unfair to counselor Layton. What were
asking for is not going to the lowest common
denominator for residents across the city it’s about bringing up the standards
for every resident to if you live in Scarborough walk downtown or
living downtown we want to walk to York everywhere in between every
resident should have the ability to walk safely and have an accessible
city that’s caring for them. That’s we should be doing. What is the
really about people because this counsel is not serious about
this. I’m not convinced it is. That’s reality. What I see is
that we just don’t spend the money on this and it’s not a
priority. I think we need a reality check because all of
you, you were care, you’re going to be walking downtown by
bringing your kid down here. Try walking with
a friend who’s in a wheelchair on crutches or moving with a
cane. Try that. We have an opportunity to be leaders. This is a moment
we can step up. It’s your choice. » Thank you. Counselor. » I do take issue with the
statement that bring this matter to the floor
counselor I think being divisive is not just — when you ignore something your
peers brought to the chamber on behalf of our constituents needs
to be addressed, knowing that I think that is being divisive. I would like
to have the matter discussed in here. To have a big part of
the city where the majority of people walk, you have high
percentage of the residence at work around in
their daily lives probably most I would say, a lot more than
other parts of the city. That’s not having
their sidewalks clean I think that’s not the best service that we should
and could be providing. The other thing I have not seen
anything in this report that actually looked at how we manage contract to deal with witches
that are quite different and the
climate change, we have a difference in Arius Moore and
more often. That’s what I thought happened last winter. Is that we didn’t
have the capability of managing our contractors in our contract did
not allow for the flexibility that we needed to clean our streets because I believe
all of us, all across the street of the city had issues with no clearing last
year. I didn’t see anything in this report and I’m wondering how we
can explain to our constituents when if something happens is winter, and
again we don’t have the capability probably dealing with
context we have that is what I would like to have that issue
brought to us in here. It is to address iniquity that we have. On sidewalk
cleaning but as well this understanding of how were going to respond to these scenarios
that we have the more common now than ever and that I felt this season and I heard
from my constituents they felt the same way, that we were not able to
respond that’s why I think we should be discussing this year’s report to the floor.
» Thank you. » This report is not
necessarily just won a budget. We need to be able to put accessibility human rights
lens over this matter. The city of Toronto was obligations to meet the accessibility
disabilities act our obligations extend to that make
sure that the services the city of Toronto provide including
access to public services access to public spaces must be free of all barriers whether it’s
temporary barriers because of heavy snowfall or perhaps a construction sign
that’s been left behind or perhaps a sandwich board that are on the streets.
All those barriers removed for accessibility. Very little point drop even
program the people living with disabilities and seniors would be able to
qualify to fill out a form to have frontage of the property
cleared that the cackle beyond the frontage of the property. We need to be
able to connect the dots. By connecting the dots that means
we need to be able to put accessibility
human’s rights lens over this. This is not just an issue around
the budget is not just an issue around the inter- suburbs
of the downtown core because of fact remains that the majority
of the people walking downtown Monday through Friday during the peak business hours the
financial district and beyond their coming from well outside the
city of Toronto boundaries. There residing elsewhere and coming downtown
and those people Scarborough North York are actually traversing a city
streets with a lot of difficulty they’re having difficulty
navigating the streets. I really do think that this issue should have gone
before the Toronto accessibility advisor committee the committee that was stuck up largely to
provide advice to city Council make sure that we can eliminate
various and eliminate undue hardship for those who are
facing barriers to exiting services that should have been
one step before it even got to the infrastructure environment
committee and because we miss the tech
committee what we do is bring us forward and have this discussion
today at city Council. Think you very much. » Thank you. » I want to speak in favor of the motion to bring the
item and I want to do so as a counselor rub since
north of the 401. I don’t think we can argue that I’m a suburban counselor. Plantar
wart is north of the 401 and on any given day I respect for my
colleague was tour of the Works committee, I wish to discuss it
myself from the comet that he made that having a conversation about accessibility
somehow will pick me against downtown counselors. I
see that is one of my many city wide responsibilities and
if it’s an issue for my colleagues in the downtown court
is an issue for me is a sworn counselor. Accessibility is a citywide issue. My residence go downtown, going to
neighborhood street and babysit the grandchildren for a day. All the generations
reversed going downtown to visit the parents for a day. We lived
throughout the city. Our residents don’t stay in the ward. They traveled
throughout the city accessibility is an issue for them anywhere. That
is an issue, for my colleagues in the legacy city of Toronto, but must
be an issue for counsel. And so I sincerely hope that this
needs to be discussed they’re going to bring it forward. I think with
the things I want to discuss is when we set out to have a consult look
at a problem, maybe we need to be more mindful of looking at what other terms that call for
consultant. What are we looking for the results. What are we hoping
to find. Are we in any way prejudice the results or
are we really looking for a fair assessment and are we looking for action oriented
advice because we got some here and we did, why cannot we willing to debate
it decide whether we can do it now. Because it’s true, you
can’t simply pump this. This financial
impact if you are sincere at all about being something about accessibility issues.
Counsel Layton motion here now is report tells
us don’t decide now to do something about it, you can’t do a damn thing until later in 2022 when were
tendering up the noncontract. Not a damn
thing. You won’t change a damn thing. If you look at the graphs were
about to prepare snow year. It runs in cycles the extreme years
come just about due for another one. Thank you, Madam speaker. » Counselor.
» Thank you. I go to support the motion counsel Layton put
forward and supporting it because in my household we have
the same debate each and every year each winter. My board is
in the southeast corner Scarborough
blood friends in the downtown core. They come out and nine
times out of 10 they get the front door of my house they said
we had a long trip. So what took you so long? Was Wicca east of
Victoria Park we kept stopping in shock
and amazement at the cleanliness of your sidewalks. In the winter. Yeah counselor,
come on. When I do the reverse I go down there my children are older
now I go to their areas trying to push a baby carriage when our
children were much younger saw the difficulties that they go
through, over the years I’ve asked staff why can’t we clear the sidewalks, what’s
the problem and they’ve often said to me we don’t have the right equipment, we
don’t know where we would put the snow. I discussed with counselor a
couple of times because I have friends of mine live in his ward. We looked at
equipment in Montréal where they similar style of sidewalks the user to
melt the ice. Clear the snow. The ask why they cannot do in Toronto. My
friends would talk about a pilot project through like great we are
outside the pilot project area. The other concern and issue around
sidewalk snow clearing why can’t you just do it. I think setting something to
budget committee, but he knows how it works here. If you sent something to
budget committee some type of debate or policy the budget committee
since it back to the committee. Or they defer it because there has been a
policy put in place are debated. I think that as we look at accessibility and
encouraging people to walk to take public transit, cycle use of sidewalks, not
driving, I think this is one of these debates that we need to have. I’ll be
supporting the motion. Thank you. » Counselor.
» Thank you. I believe this a conversation we
need to have. I believe the mayor had a great deal of courage in basically
requesting moving the motion that generated report in the first place. Part of the
reason that was done was were not doing a very good job of clearing snow
in the wintertime. Whether you believe you need sidewalk clearing the downtown
or uptown or whatever the reality is, that
currently, the way we are remove snow off our streets is not
working. It’s not working at all. That report had a study in it said we did a survey
hip hip hooray. We are doing a big stinky job of clearing the snow.
I don’t know who they were talking to. That’s not the case. In fact, each and
every one of you know that as a snow
season approaches, you are all in the crouched position
knowing that there’s a whole to phone calls that are going to come that are going
to say you’re not doing a good job. My windows have not been cleaned. My sidewalks have
been cleared but you cannot walk on it. We need to have a
conversation about how we do this. We spent a great deal of money $90 million plus when you
look out you translate this snow events, the 40-60 to average 25 hours were
spending in the neighborhood of $87,000 an hour to clear snow up our streets.
If nothing else that number alone should give you pause for concern and pause for reflection. $87,000. I
understand it is simple math. I got that. But it should give you pause for
reflection in terms of how we are clearing the snow up our streets. Maybe we need a
hybrid system. I don’t know. But we need to look at it. We are not getting value
for our money. The job is not being
well done. It is conversation that we actually need to continue to have.
» Thank you. Remind members were discussing
to bring this item forward. We are not debating the item. Counselor. » Thank you. Fostering
conversation unfold before me. I believe through the city that is equal all over
this bit of joy in that. Different configurations.
Different streetscapes. Different qualities. I started
chuckling this to my colleagues how tough it is
to get along on the sidewalk. If you wait
for the first car to go down the street so I can follow the wheels to the bus
stop. I don’t even have a sidewalk in front of my house. There a lot
of people who don’t have one either. They are okay with that
because that’s where used to. As we have in our neighborhoods. Stand here
and talk about that on the sidewalk cleared faster. I think we are pretty
darn good service levels in the city what comes to our
neighbors. I accept your –a lot of
discounters go through a lot of calls were very
complicated operation does unfold perfect every time but for the most part I
think if you ask most people, I think they tell you the service levels are
pretty good. $90 Million a year spent on snow clearing. This
immaterial conversation. At entire section city that can’t
run a plow like you can out the birds were goes down the
sidewalk in the darkness of the night at 4 AM in the morning if you’re
lucky the plow goes by the middle of night. We are talk
about much narrower sections. It might have to be hand dug. Because our posts and
obstructions in concrete retaining walls.
Counselors you think you have a lot of calls now about difficulty in snow
clearing, wait to try to go and navigate little tiny maze you
get calls from residents setting they miss a 6 inch split or other cookout retaining
wall because the sidewalk is so confined. I’ve seen
snowplows the ripped entire timbers from here
to the speaker right out of the ground in the middle not because it’s
dark. In any case, I don’t think we should be opening up
the conversation right now. I think
if you sit and think about it there’s a lot of things that are
unequally different parts of the city. And that is really the features and
attributes of what we have. This comes down to a conversation of money and what
you’re wanting to see more money spent in the area. I don’t need to go
there. I don’t and we got there the budget to do that. I think we should
move along. The committee did its work. Those it spoke of the committee,
congratulations. If you did not go to the debate I don’t know why you
want to bring here. » Thank you. Counselor.
» Thank you. We talk a lot in this chamber about the safety of
our streets. We have a lot of conversations about vision
zero. Here is an example where each of us will have a vote. If
you press green that is a boat that will look at the safety of our
streets this year. If you press read, be voting against looking
at the safety of our streets for this year. That’s it. Vote green, saying prepared to
look at vision zero consequences part of the city during the winter
months. U-boat read you are saying maybe we will look at those that safety
next year. Thank you very much. » Counselor.
» Thank you. Does it matter if it’s downtown suburbs doesn’t matter where you live in
the city of Toronto every citizen should have the same accessibility. I
realize in the former city of Toronto downtown it’s more
difficult to clean the snow the sidewalks
are more narrow the cars are parked more tighter. We need to
look at equipment that is probably
hybrid equipment that is able to get in there. However the same token a couple
of years back it was in April we gotta set an April snowstorm and I was outside in my constituents
streets were not clean. Downtown had been cleaned up. Talk about equality make sure that we look at whole
sale concept of not just downtown or in
Scarborough not where you just got sidewalks we don’t have sidewalks. Some of
your students do not want sidewalks. We are
going to look at this I’m not sure if this appropriate place to look at it
or the committee. I would say to you we have to look at wholesale cannot
leave one street behind. We cannot leave one constituent
behind. We cannot close our eyes to one
individual. We have to look at wholesale. Thank you. » Counselor. » Is a new counselor here I
wasn’t aware that 20 doesn’t have any sidewalk cleaning. Always
set that Scarborough is Toronto. No I think Toronto is Toronto. I think it’s a very
good debate here I think I’ve heard so much and I think everybody should
have been the same equitable same accessibility with the same
snow clearing service that the whole Toronto should be
entitled for. Thank you. » Thank you. Counselor Thompson.
» We need to provide safe sidewalks for all residents all the time. Clearly
we’ve heard some of the comments that’s been made this morning. In the
perception is that there was a laissez-faire non-caring
attitude by some members of Council if you don’t bring this
matter forward discussion here. What
I’m concerned about speaker, recall having this conversation
with Gary Welsch some time ago. He was responsible for snow
clearing in the city. When we launch Scarborough program many
years ago, it was through the billboards bus shelter
advertising with revenue came from to fund the snow sidewalk clearing.
We want to ensure that we could clear the sidewalks allow people to have great
accessibility. What we discovered later on in terms of looking at downtown Toronto I
think this is about 1998, 1999, the great disparities with respect to how
the sidewalks or roadways were constructed vehicles and so on
the downtown core. It made it rather difficult with respect to
types of the equipment that were being utilized elsewhere because of the width
and the dimensions of the sidewalks in the roadway
speaker. What effort have some discussions is that this morning is a pilot
program that’s on the way to address this very issue. As
much as people want to create an emotional state and his counsel which would say, though
some of you who don’t care about the safety and responsibility
which is our job to make sure everyone is safe. The challenge
that we have as much we spend $90 million a year plus to clear
snow in the city, and we know it’s not perfect. The fact
of the matter is we can have discussion here today for the next two days
and still not solve the problem unless we put up a real process
in place to identify the equipment that we need to make it happen because I
understand many of the pieces of equipment that needed the downtown core is
really available and if it is, it’s not sufficient to do what we want. We still have
this disparity. I do want anyone to take the position that
we don’t care. We do. We need to ensure that we do things properly.
Counselor talked about applying it make great
damages. Number of calls we get beyond simply issue around snow
clearing it’s around property damage whether not sod or post that’s
put in place so on so forth. That’s do it properly and let’s someone
always say let’s based on the evidence that’s needed in order to it correctly.
» Thank you. » Last speaker.
» I concur in the comments made by the counselor. I want to bring us
to reality in terms what this part says. What this report says. We asked
for report that among other things looked at a review of
best practices technology and look at the
question of going sidewalks in Toronto needs York community Council area. I want
to say that report the conclusion of the committee based on the
recommendation the very same consultant when
the people sang spent all this money paying no attention. What
did that consultant recommend. We should
do a pilot project. Exactly as the mayor said. I will read the words. I’m not happy that only 57 % of people
across the city so they were generally satisfied with the way in which we deal with winter
maintenance services provided by the city of Toronto. There was
some survey flash up there for two seconds and made it look
like was 95 that’s not so. Based on this work city project meets
or exceeds which maintenance levels of service roadways bike
lanes sidewalk compared to other
cities. All the areas of comparison included sidewalk
learning practices goes on to say, furthermore found
that a majority 57% of residents satisfied with winter maintenance services
provided by the city of Toronto. I want that number to go up. We
all do. At the end of the day there’s some house 95
and that’s what people think of this overall as I think not putting
all the facts in front of the people that are watching this debate today.
Or in front of the Council. I want to read the operative paragraph
because there’s impression no pilot project we do not bring
this here for some hours long debate which I believe presents
false choices. Those would say what a
ridiculous ticklish what were dealing with here that is. Based on the
recommendations contained in the report. Staff undertaken
equipment test using in-house equipment to
mechanically clear snow from sidewalks in areas of the city not currently service. The
testing prior toys locations currently part of the senior sidewalk program for
seniors and persons with disabilities apply to the sidewalks cleared
manually by the city at no cost. During the test stop loss
undertake the development of ventilatory sidewalk conditions. Furthermore staff
will implement and improve education campaign to better inform the
public about the services the city provides and service levels they can
expect during the winter weather. Talks about doing exactly a pilot program.
Try to make sure the deputy mayor says difficult to look at
doing this for going to look at it it’s based on
evidence as to weather the equipment we have works properly
need other equipment if you want to do it something that you can
do in whole or part or not at all based on the particular configuration of the sidewalks
we are talking about. Exactly the way she make decisions instead of
bringing things here having a big debate here. Where you just say because is no
object that we don’t have the equipment to do is no object. Forget
about that. This is same people were costly saying we should be making this
decision is based on evidence based on actual practical reality of what
we have equipment or not. To get the job done. That’s exactly what this
report says we should do. Do a test doing area focus on those one
particular need seniors and people with differing abilities and see how we make
out with our current equipment. See what would be required what
we learned from that we decide to go forward into
this across to the what would be required. That’s right way to do this is a
post bringing here and politicizing the something where
people know better than to say even if we wanted to that we could do this job this
winter showed up hiring hundred people to shovel to go
out and shovel all the walks. It’s just not something that we
actually looked at the context of practicality and feasibility I think to
mislead people into thinking that that is something we could do is not service to the
public. This is the right way to do it. This is what the consultants
recommended this is what the staff recommended this what the
committee decided we should have a committee system so they can hear the
consultants here for the step I make sure that they do the right thing making
decisions properly. In light of the others. I support that we stick
with where we were going with this pilot program undertaken this winter.
» Thank you. Counselor. » I have just a question. To
clarify. The question to the mayor. To clarify. The
statement he made said this is what the consultants recommended. In
fact would you at least acknowledge the size of the
pilot is not what the consultants recommended.
» I will acknowledge that the staff recommended a pilot project the
size that is recommended here. And that there was some discussion of
larger pilot by the consultants. Yes. At the end
of the day this court a pilot project undertaken focus on areas of the
people in particular need to think we all agree on with our
seniors and people with differing abilities.
This was is recommended. A pilot will see if the equipment is adequate
to see if it works. We’ll see with the practical applications
of our doings of the product which we recommend a later time. » The consultants recommended
2050 km at a pilot. Can you tell me how large the city pilot will be under what they
recommend? » I just –that question. I don’t
have that number. » I don’t think we have that number which is one of
the major problems that committee. We have a consultant recommended 250 km pilot. That was not
clear in the report. There were that would be picked I’m told that
the number is one and 50 km. I would do that is a significant
pilot project. 150.
» I just want to make that clear that’s not the pilot that was
submitted. » I would say is a very
significant pilot program. » 7900. Let’s keep it in
scale. » Thank you.
» Counselor. Questions. » Thank you. I want to ask
because the item received many items before the Toronto
accessibility advisor committee oftentimes their policies and
program directions that eliminate barriers so people with learning
disabilities you surprised to know that our committee received
the particular report? » I wasn’t aware of that. Obviously as
part of the exercise going to go through the pilot program and the focus I think it would
be appropriate time before and after the pilot to consult that group and
to but doesn’t change the fact. If we had gone there and they said we believe that should be
the case we should have sidewalk across the city because people were doing
abilities lacrosse acidic I was acknowledge that. Seniors and people
differing abilities lacrosse city doesn’t change the fact that those are trying
to create depression here we have equipment in place now and the ability to
go and do this job across the city and everywhere else
creating a false impression and try to get us to make a decision without the
evidence and had to help the very people you talk about.
» Thank you. I’m not going to forecast with the committee members reset or not
said, I do know that we have a committee meeting coming up shortly. At
the beginning of November. Would you support this report even though
it’s not essentially going to our committee would you support the
sport going before the members to have a review staff presentation?
» Once the parameters of pilot project are set out clearly and quite happy
to seek input at the time. From that group but I think what’s more
important is going to seek their input after the pilot project is done. It
will say to them this with a pilot project told us. Can we get your
comments on how the pilot project did or did not work for you. Did you think
things were better with the same words? It was support that kind of
examination which I think the most useful but we could go tomorrow that a speaker
to the committee and say to them what you think about the idea of putting
out elevators and all subway stations right away? They which of
course. As I would and you would but let’s do that but we also know that there
are huge -haven’t practical challenges involved in putting those
elements into the subway stations out once tomorrow morning. That’s why
we’re doing it on days basis that’s why were doing a pilot project to be
responsible about how you go about making decisions. I’m very happy to go
there think about Stanford he goes after the pilot project right away.
And say what did you think did work did help. They very much Mr. Mayor
for the comments. I think for the committee members remind counsel
for myself as well is that the committee provides advice to the executive
committee and executive committee move that along as they deem fit. Not in any
particular position to direct staff direct city Council. My
question is I do think I hope the mayor would agree that there
is material benefits to having the committee members provide
strategic advice before the pilot project is
rolled out. Would you not agree? » I think getting your advice
anytime will be useful to us and as I say I was only talk to us About what
is the best put in front of them but yet my undertaking will be put in front
of them because I think there advice were most valuable to see
but I think the advice helping us to run the pilot project might also be
useful but I will talk to city staff about that.
» Thank you very much. » Thank you.
» On the motion recorded vote. The motion does not carry. The boat is 13-12. The required two
thirds majority has not achieved.
» The clerk will distribute the removed items. Please note that several of the audit
committee identifies ies of covenantal attachments.
I will now consider request. » Thank you. On page 5, EC
8.16 being held by counseling agreement provincial funding changes.
Childcare capital projects update. I asked this item be
dealt with the first item for tomorrow. Were waiting
we have to have the sink done by Thursday. As relates to
agreement with the province. » On page 5, which item? all in favor? Carry. » Thank you very much. I have
a petition signed by about 130
residents in the Mondale area of my ward. The requesting
installation speedbump or humps in front of 83 Mondale doctor in order to ensure the safety of
the children. There was a park on the west side just in front of 83 Mondale and the
speeding there is rather excessive. Other
measures plummeted as well but the rest of the requesting speedbump or
humps at the location. » All in favor of receiving the petition? Recorded vote?. » Motion to receive carried
unanimously. 25 in favor. » All those in favor of items
held. Recorded vote. There was an interest on EC 8.6 NECN.8.
Counsel has an interest. PCH .6, recorded vote. » The item is adopted unanimously.
» EC8.8 recorded vote. » Died it was adopted
unanimously 24 in favor. » Members of Council I want to
stress importance of preparing motions in advance. Given to
the cockpit for you not have your motion ready will not recognize you your
money members must emotion first before you speak to it. River city Council
falls between the processing netting about emotions without notes
during the meeting. Please remember that emotion without
notice must include a reason for urgency. If you have
an urgent motion without notice please give your motion to the city clerk staff. They will
prepare the necessary for my review along with emotion. The
term must agree motion is urgent before you can speak to
introduce at the meeting. Require 18 votes without notice
to the agenda during the meeting. Just as to
the gender not subject about the committee
or agency. I will be reviewing all motions carefully. Will advise
counsel after each recess which motions to add to the agenda. Now go to
the mayor’s first key item. Toronto Ontario
transit update. » Questions questions to the city manager. Benefits in
front of us from your perspective upload is
off. A benefit? » That’s correct. » Commitment new provincial
dollars toward expansion, is a benefit? Correct.
» That’s right. » The possibility to actually get some relief for
line one, that’s a benefit. » That’s correct.
» Some of the concerns asserted with it, let me look at the
different lines. I’ll begin with the Scarborough extension.
Perhaps go to TTT. Priebus one-stop subway
expansion plan was at what percentage design and were
expected opening date? . What percentage design hourly
for the three stops? » (Inaudible). » We were at 85- 100%. What is expected
opening for the new plan Scarborough. » We talked about 2029 or 2030. » As it relates to the Ontario
line some of the questions we have heard about some of the benefits. We know our DCM or
TDC what percentage design was a relief line at? Our previous
plan to release line? » Between 59 and 20%.
» What is the overall of the Ontario line. What
percentage design is a document. » Zero and 10%.
» What are the sum of the unknowns given that we are just
level design. We know in the downtown West the depth required to
tunnel underneath Queen Street over to for example. » (Inaudible). » Is any geotechnical analysis
been done for the new sections of the line?
» Not that I’m aware of. » Some other questions I have appeared who
will maintain the Ontario line the actual maintenance of this
? » Fair amount of discussion regard to maintenance. One of
things we do have the take away from today is to craft the operating
agreement with the province. Similarly to
what were doing right now. » Do we-having it is to be
determined what the maintenance model B.
» That’s correct. » Unfair integration this line
will be operated by the TTC. » We have any commitment or
guarantee that the fares will be set by the TPC and integrated
with the rest of the system? » Not to that specificity. Does a
great deal of discussion and how to
mobilize people. That subject further discussion.
» Those are all my questions. Thank you. » Counsel.
» Regarding maintenance and answers to be determined. When
will we know who will operate and maintain these lines in the
long term? » We don’t have a set date the only married of
agreements need to be struck between ourselves and the
province between ourselves and the agency. Property
maintenance we have noted that TDC’s day-to-day
operations and maintenance the big discussion comes on
lifecycle maintenance. Sitting service level standards and how
those arraignments work across the bride of different types of lines that
are being developed. » Should be no before we make any final
arrangements? » At a point where we know
sufficiently what we need to know in order to advance building the project
this is a reference not the similar projects the crosstown
where we are currently in discussions the operating agreement.
» With respect instrument cost new technology versus not being compatible will
be the price differential that we can absorb? » The fact is a social responsibility project
particularly Ontario line speak about different technology was
cost her 1% borne by the province. When the
technology is not compatible, who pays for that?
» The province. » If it’s not possible to make
a compatible? » This difference in the lines
certainly we are speaking to TPC to chime in lines 112
expectation technology must be compatible with the existing
system. The Ontario line is a standalone less of a concern.
» We have any cost projections to how much will cost to
maintain recognize we don’t know who’s going to maintain it and
who’s going to have the final fiscal responsibility, but we
know they to spit it cost? » No. We are too early in the
design phase to determine that at this point.
» When can we expect that information? » I would suggest is a projects
individual progress about a picture of what the capital
construction is, depending on other province pictures as well it will be getting those types
of members of the province is taking on a later point. I don’t foresee
it the next year. » Because we purchased trains as well as
streetcars and Ontario number of times I think
that some of them have seen technical failings the
lack of ability to deliver on time, will that change our
procurement model in this case we can avoid some of those prior
failings? » Won’t speak to the current
state of the TCC. The procurement
approach is a decision to be made by the province. » At the procurement approach
as outlined by the prophets does not deliver success for the city of
Toronto were using procurement is actually delivered failure. How
will we be able to influence that so assure our riders and the
residents of Toronto that they will get the services that they
anticipate. How can we influence that? » That are tickets importance of
city being involved from where we are now do the design phase read to the
implementation. Ability to influence and express this it is interest and
concerns what we want to see done. That’s where we sit staring at the
table is critical for that. » It’s basically influencing them by
conversation? » Had a commitment of
collaboration in the design work. That we’ve over the last
number of months a considerable amount of good work
done in good collaboration done. We have to but his expertise declared
within the TPC tremendous expertise in planning and a city
planning group and others. I believe that the
expertise of these originals have brought has been listen to will continue to
be listened to. » The communities that will be directly impacted
by construction the relocation of the lines, and fix probation
to require the real estate how will
those communities be for the consultant engaged with this process
knowing that the party gone through lengthy public consultations and given
us the feedback, how do we ensure that were knocking to keep them with
another conversation about a new technology new placement of —
» I would say the topic of consultation has been significantly placed certainly
it’s reference in terms of reference that gutter table as well as a
commitment from the province going forward. They
have the responsibility to check consultation is done the
development of the project. I was sick with our involvement and our continuous
reinforcement the importance of engaging the community I think
they’ve also had expense with the crosstown things don’t go so well maybe if that’s
not done properly. I’ve no reason to believe that there will not be a
decent and conference of consultation process we will
continue to advocate for that. » Thank you.
» Counselor.
» The question to the chief planner. I’m very concerned
about the timeline given for the relief Ontario line and when
it’s going to offer release on the young line, line 1
especially the North York center. Is it
reasonable for us as a counselor to ask that the city manager and his
team request for a delay in implementing Bill 108 up zoning Midtown and focus which
is gone up zoning until the relief
line is operational? » To the speaker, as counsel
knows amended and approved the items as planned. In that
approval there are policy changes that increase the
potential for more density. Then counsel endorsed. That continues to be
a point of implementation. I
share the concern that we would have difficult initiatives and growth
management issues. We will have to closely monitor that path of growth over the next five, 10,
15 years and take interim steps through
measures that the T cc can deploy and also be mindful about other tools. The
important projects to keep building and
diligently in order to address the growth pressure that we got already that young.
» On top of the growth pressures we have another growth pressure
happening in two years. As you know the Eccleston
crosstown is going to be unloading thousands more
writers at young in Eglinton the very near at the time to cut the growth pressures that
exist we’ve got the up zoning and the coming out of the crosstown unloading
passengers. Don’t you think those are the reasons combined where we
should be asking for some kind of deferral on the up
zoning by the province until we are sure that the relief line is well underway or
completed whenever. » I don’t know that it’s
something that counsel may wish to at least put on the record that it has a
concern that the commitment to the Ontario line is solid and
that we continue to work to
diligently match the infrastructure that we need to support that growth with the
approvals the Council is considering. We
have some tools to manage the situation in the interim but certainly
counsel make it abundantly clear to the province that the commitment to Ontario line
beyond over the next 15 or 20 years is an essential
part of building up a network supporting the
growth that we are seeing already at young and Eccleston.
» A quick question of the TPP. In terms of the lead line Ontario
line, when is the completion date supposedly
that the province is committing to. » If you think that is realistic 2027 this brand-new secret technology
mammoth new $11 billion line. » It’s difficult for us to make
that assessment. As part of the conversations that we’ve had with the province.
» That was your last question. Thank you. Counselor Thompson. » Thank you. The fact that there is a three
year addition because of the process for the extension of the
Lord and to Scarborough. Can you tell me how that equates to the shelf
life of the SRT and what is a process in terms of the plan for the SRT. How many buses
will see during that time of the construction? » Right now the TDC is undertaken operation the
technical assessment of the SRT make a judgment on extended life. I
will be reporting next year on that as well as five-year
service that was looking at that other options should the
life be limited. » With respect to the telling contract for the extension when
would that take place as part of the iteration of this plan.
» Is something that we are discussing the problems will be discussing any opportunity to
do some early works including leasing tunnel contracts. It
will be getting discussed. » We’ve had many discussions on this issue here. Reports you brought forward encouraging
us to take a seat at the table to discuss this issue
to ensure that we are at a agreement or understanding
better understanding in terms of how we move forward. Could you help us
enlighten us as to the process that you went through and our view
and feelings as to where we are going forward. » You’ve given instruction back
in December to be unattainable give instruction develop the terms of
reference of governing the table set up there clearly the issues
they felt needed to be addressed to the satisfaction of the Council.
Those are marching orders. Executive involves microlensing a special
manager of the file for the premier. Deputy Minister of
transportation others we meet on a fairly regular basis to make sure that the
understandings of each other is discussed and well understood.
That table is driven by the terms of reference that you put approved. The
issues that you identified and that’s why we are where you are today.
There’s a reason why we remain not just
optimistic but I think convinced that the conversations will continue to
work in a very positive way. We are interspace driven table. Which means that
we do spend a fair bit of time understanding others
perspectives and try to ensure that what we bring forward to our respective
decision-making bodies meets the needs of those parties. It’s worked very well
to this point in time. We certainly have a lot more work to do. As we
move into the designs and executions of projects.
» Thank you. There were some questions and comments that were made addictive committee
regarding the tunnel and underground. As part of the
process that’s been reviewed that’s been discussed in terms
of the discussion table that you’re part of?
» Through the speaker. » My final question. Ontario line
the DRL seems to me that the material line
covers more ground. Would you agree? » It has a western extension which
the relief line did not have. It goes north of the Danforth to first
phase of the reply did not have. » The centerline captures so
areas like Flemington and foreign clip that area that is
now challenged with respect to transit services.
» That is correct compared to the original relief line South project. We
have looked at service to the heirs as well.
» The many different types of equipment that could be
utilized. It is a worry for you now that
we have the proper equipment that will serve a centerline?
» Our main concern is that the material line of what it was
built provide sufficient relief to line 1 and information that we
have today is that they’re proposing trains
are large enough to do that. » Thank you. Counselor. » Start off with a question appropriate staff on
the beginning of the report you mentioned that we have repair
growth needs adding up to roughly round $33 billion. What is our standard repair
number of that tunnel? » The entire $33.5 billion next 15 years is (Inaudible).
» We have a particular number of what were expecting the next 15
years? » $24 Billion.
» Under this plan agreement we have with the province it is to
transit put that into a state of good repair is that a significant
step forward for the TPC in your opinion? » The TPC leased the estimate in
January the template to stop the discussions on the need for
funding nine months later very pleased that that looks like the reduction of
funding we made available. » Moving on to page 7 of the report, understanding the
current funding that’s been put forward to the city of Toronto with the
current dynamics with the federal government
supporting this initiative, is that in any way going to affect how we
approach our funding that were receiving to the city of Toronto? Any idea how
that will be affected added to
ticking away. » Nominating for federal funding to projects the Ontario
line as well as the Scarborough East line. It
should that is the recommendation staff that
counsel nominate those two projects for federal funding. » So here it states that to get
to $2.16 billion in funding we would be matching that but now
we are putting current capital funding toward
state of good repair. Correct? » Yes. That’s correct. The province
will be funding the amount the city would have otherwise contributed.
» Okay. Excellent. And then critically to the Ellington West specifically
report it states that not too much work is being done to date.
What can we expect for Eglinton West in
the coming months and years and is
there any timeline problem on that? » We don’t have firm timelines. We
know that they are working on updating the business analysis
on that but we have not been given or a timeline. » Then moving on to page the planning part of the report. As plans
have changed over the province fourth
new transit plans, of course,
affecting number of new neighborhoods in the city of Toronto. And how are
city planning going to approach the planning
aspects what’s going to change on our end and how look at urban
planning in these new communities? » The plans generally accord
with the city’s official plan material line as
to the reply north and south generally accord with with the city plans
for growth. The extension to Scarborough accords with the city desired to
create a large center Scarborough center. The –a
general sense that is something that contributes to our support for
the priority projects. At a more discrete level a tangible
level on the ground, the city the province discussing enter into a MOU that
will guide us the various roles and
responsibilities that both the province and the city have been achieving transit
oriented developments in close proximity to transit stations. Both of
the macrolevel and microlevel that’s how we are proceeding with the overall
relationship between land-use development the transit projects.
» That was your last question. Thank you. Counselor Fletcher.
Questions. » hold on. Can we get the microphone– just a second.
» This is configuration of what would be the all the
trucks going on the interior line going in the 2 km through
my ward of brown. I want to confirm with our staff that the
existing is currently three tracks. Would like to confirm that?
» That is correct. » The fourth track would be the
RER track, correct? » That’s correct. And the
other true tracks would be the material line track.
» Just to confirm the requirement for the
track with in order to have a safe running of the new train in heavy real
situation, that there has to be 6 m between the city standard
or the TCC standard for safety is 6 m between centerline train
the current goal trains. Is that right? » That’s correct. (Inaudible).
» Does Metrolink agree with that? » We have not had that
conversation. » We haven’t had that confirmed by
Metrolink. » This is our safety standard.
You are confirming that. This is our current safety standard. » It is a TPC standard.
» Or the city standard as well. » Do we have a different TPC
standard command. » It is the same.
» A minimum 35.5 m mitigating
circumstances. Bringing that corridor up to 36 or 37 m
minimum in order to run the trains above ground. Have I got
that computation right? » Roughly you are right. The minimum would be
about 36 MDOT m. » Okay. There are six bridges on the interior
line that I’m showing here 2 km. A project
East in Queens Logan Drive. And this
also work that’s contemplated the
Gardiner Expressway. I’m going to ask the deputy city manager we have to
expand the bridge at Lakeshore over the Don River? Correct?
» That’s correct. » Even now in order to
undertake the flood protection work that has to be done in that
bridge. » That’s correct.
» Is Metrolink aware of that? » I can confirm with many detailed discussions.
I would say yes. » I’m looking on the impact on commuters. We looked
at that yet present still to come? » Is still yet to come. » If I was asked to expedite
that that be possible? Environmental assessment? What we are discussing the confluence
of a lot of very large construction projects helping along this
corridor and centering around East Tarbert. With no extended how that
conversations D operations folks yet. I don’t know that’s necessarily a part of the T pack
process per se but the work that needs to be done will be done. » But the city could do that
work and have the T pack informed by that by our conclusions.
» I was just in the work the city is done is going to be used
to inform the projects. » A farm to show you the
bridges that currently exist the drawbridge is currently 18 MDOT
m. The new track would be 36 MDOT m. Using my map that’s
basically the size of that bridge. And many of the
other bridges. I would have to assume there’s a fairly significant
impact on the transit on Broad Street and any other branch for travel
whether your car driver or take transit. » Absolutely.
» Thank you. A question to Mr. Lynn turn. We have the city province mentored
growth with different stations. There
has to be is more certain amount density. Has
anyone looked at the impact of adding portals that the portals would go down in the
middle of Riverdale Plaza. » Does not been specifically
considered yet is renewal the line is represent of
line but we very much and understand the impact of the treatment
opportunity to Riverdale. » Thank you. » Counselor.
» What was a provincial cost estimate on the west extension?
What is a provincial estimate for the provinces plan for the
crosstown West? » There talk about $5 billion. » What is the most recent cost
estimate for option one. » Around $1.82 billion. » Most recent estimate the
provincial. Scarborough subway? » 5.5 billion. » Most recent estimate of the
provincial. » 2 billion.
» How many transit riders as a crosstown West
projected to serve? » About 5500.
» How many new transit riders is a
new Scarborough expected to serve?
» About 11,000 new riders each weekday.
». » Report discusses $2.1 billion must money be put toward other
transit projects Scarborough people been saying to me you can move on to the Appleton East LRT
if you want to. Currently that $2.1 billion is unfounded. Correct? » That’s correct.
» The other issue around that is that for the reported also mentions that
as we decide what to do with that money once we do have a source for we
have to meet the provincial demand or need we have to provide potable progress
on our state of good repair. » The concern around the 33.5
gondola still good repair needs for TTC is been a very front and center
discussion that we been having and yes is a commitment to significantly
investment addressing state of good repair. » The current estimate now on
the Eglinton East LRT to universe of Toronto
Scarborough is. » Around $2 billion.
» In $2019? » Yes. Correct.
» We have a structure reserve fund for transit we are working on is about $200
million in it? » If you are speaking to the dedicated levy and yes
there is. » $200 Million?
» About 118 million approximately this
year. » How much does the city put in the fund each year.
» I believe is approximately 80 million.
» That bond yields approximately
$41 million annually. » And then for the TTC looking at clarification
around our service network. In the report that.
» MALE STUDENT: Is now does it will address several
of the service network local transportation as a pewter
system I’m also asking that the context of Scarborough where 50%
of the ridership doesn’t get on the subway or to go out of Scarborough depends on the
transit network in Scarborough. » The chair importance of
excellent transit connections to the anterior line until line
extension a very clear and very clearly stated by the city during our discussions with
Metrolink. We clearly have identified need to very good connections between
fossa streetcars and the trains on until line on
two E. extension never publicized bus terminals at the major intersection major
interchanges is also very important. » Also throughout the report on
roughly pages 17 to 22 a lot of discussion around what the projected detail is demands
going to be detail report coming out on the
project demands and how that affects the transit projects that we are
looking at other provinces looking at building. How the
demand will rearrange itself as
projects come online. » Certainly we will be
regularly updating our modeling impact of these if you get more
lines as we get more details. » Are you going to be reporting
on publicly? » The speaker as part of the
updates the city Council but this report recommends we will
end can include updates on modeling on the lines as we get more detail.
» Drilling numbers around so the provincial gas tax receive I believe $180
million year? » I think it’s one of $65
million year. Next we look at provinces for
projects paid for by financing the most part there is
a reference on report about using existing network
farebox revenue to defray operating costs. We are going to be looking after
them or operating them. Sat farebox revenue is there an
estimate What the farebox revenue is going to be versus the
operating costs for the four lines commit.
» The agreement contemplates that farebox revenue would flow to offset operating costs. four lines have yet to be
determined. Over the course of the next you are correct on the provincial gas
tax. » Thank you. » I think is is to the city manager. The PT model
that they used for the crosstown who do the
detailed design work on that project? » By the project company. » When was network initiated and
when was at work completed? » The detailed design developed in the
early stages of the project company’s contract
and continues on throughout the for the design development until it’s
actually ready to be issued through our
sorry, the construction documents to be developed.
» Is part of a P3 model the applicants of the bidders are actually
advancing detailed design that’s what they’re submitting to be evaluated?
» That is correct. » How far do they typically–is a recall for the
market that specializes in a percentage of design that needs to be done in
order to put forward a bid? » Yes. It’s typically brought about 30%
level prior to the request for proposal being closed.
» Is it safe to say that we would anticipate detailed design
of 30% before a successful bidder
was awarded the contract commit. » Yes. It’s contemplated that using Petri
model you would see that level of design being completed.
» A lot of questions around detailed design that we are all asking. It’s
anticipated that those would be brought forward 23% which is
where we are at on finding other
projects advanced to that level of a contract is awarded.
» Yes, that’s correct. » What about cost estimates.
Who prepares the cost estimates for the project? » The cost estimate initial
step is prepared by the city and the
TPC and ultimately by the province would then determine what the actual
cost of the project is before it goes out to market. » The model on the crosstown or
what that we will do with these projects?
» No. The these projects because these are priority for the province they will be doing
that. » Is it typical that we define a cost estimate
production with detailed design is that design work is about to project?
» The speaker. Yes. They will as well using a process go through increased accuracy for
the development of the budget estimate in order to get approval.
» That a class cost estimate process?
» Typically does.
» Is that what we anticipate seeing with these projects in a Petri model?
» Yes. » We don’t have that information today. To the same
extent that we were to be had say 30% design when it comes forward
from the market, we can anticipate the city of Toronto to have more detailed
information on the design and a better sense of what the cost is
going to be. » Yes. There will be for the elements of that. As
a project progresses. » Would like to thank you very much and shift
over to chief planner and talk about transit oriented
development something discussed extensively here. Could you tell us more about the
MOU between the city and the province to work together on transit
oriented development? » Generally we need to
understand specifically how transit oriented development to
play out the sources with various transit stations. It could play out as participation by private
developer natural development of the station. It could be that
no cruise right next door. Ms. various
scenarios we want to understand the role of
the private developer and the role of Metrolink role of the
city. We are very much interested in continuing our
role as a planning approval authority as
we do with any other development. An influencing shape size and
attributes of those and certainly work with. » You and I would agree that
it’s important to these things is an
opportunity to form the DOT conversations around the station proposed in
the plans coming forward. » I would say yes. The MOU very much
would be a place where we will be attempting to articulate the city’s view of
how TOD should occur and what roles the city continues to
enjoy. » Thank you. Counselor. » Thank you. The termination Ontario line now
it’s going to be exhibition place. » That’s correct. Exhibition
station. » Lots of things happening Metrolink’s
that platform kind of dangerous right now there are
events going on in the exhibition place. I think
this design happening already with Metrolink’s with regard to the space. We see this is
going to be a mini transit hub at the station with that.
» With several lines coming in their becomes a much more
significant hub. » What does that mean to the
30% design and Metrolink’s doing on the
platform now? » Work TPC is doing is continuing because we don’t know
the actual effects Ontario line would have on want to wrap up the work
early in the new year deposit if necessary based on information
we learn about the Ontario line. » $5 Billion has been going out there
that would be up for us. Then the waterfront LRT was mentioned. Where did that come from? It would be earmarked for state of good
repair. » I don’t believe there’s any specific reference waterfront transit are
identified in his previous city Council priorities. In the
agreement we will have a conversation about those
subjects report from the city manager in 2020 counsel says assistance
priorities for the rejection of those funds bring mind to
address the state of good repair concerns we have and
expansion. » Assessing cost of uploading the four lines is that something
you said? » Yes.
» Thank you. » Counselor. » We talked a lot about state of
good repair this morning but I don’t know all universe in the
same pages what that is. What is state of good repair respect
to the TPC budget. Talk about track replacements. Vehicle
buys. That big 33 billon dollar egg of which we
still have 24 billion I believe roughly below the line, what is
that? » Lifecycle replacement.
Upcoming needs for replacement buses. » A lot of his vehicle buys. We know were
going to within that lifecycle with Avenue streetcars but by the end of
that period of time we are going to have to be at least looking at what is
next week car. By then will be at 15 years from now, the first one delivered will be
20 or 25 years old. » That’s correct. Midway through the process
that’s correct looking for the future. » Use to vehicle purchase programs.
Sometimes from province sometimes from the federal
government. But they were very specific. We know you need
to replace vehicles that’s a big one go try to give the basic
system going, the program for that. That’s not
contemplated in these negotiations. Is it? Is that
all on us now? » Certainly the priority the
context of this agreement has been to address state of
good repair and growth related needs particularly focused on subway
that’s been identified is significant concern. There’s not been a
specific discussion about vehicles. » Whether rail or bus? We have
not discussed this?
» In the letter I provided the city manager that was transmitted to the province it
does identify the items I previously mentioned includes
vehicles mind to replacement for instance the vehicles will be 30 years
old in 2026. The signal system will be 55 years old today so
that’s identified the CIP was passed along to the province.
» Passed along to them but their messaging is all still good. Is yours now. Do
they mean the pickles or not? » That would be correct.
» State of good repair certainly really want us to focus our dollars and
freedom from expansion but also important to say that there will
be partners conversation with the federal government in
terms of what role they might play in assisting the state of good
repair. » They might get involved in
it. But we don’t know in what sense?
» That would be an accurate statement.
» Is this new Goshen table is going to be mindful of my time,
an ongoing thing. We adopt this deal today we are way not finished my right in
saying that? » You are absolutely right.
» We’ve got a lot more to do. With respect to operating, I get unease with the statement we are
going to let you keep the farebox to offset. The farebox
offset much now? Which property tax goes into each the TCC today? » Right just over a dollar.
» We are going to be using the farebox to offset they said. The minute the cross town will open for
each barely taken will take on a cost. Also the bigger bill in the operating budget. How do we
not–how we not been promised for a little over 12 years now the not say we will talk about operating in
about 18 months. 12 years ago. Is this a condition of the steel. Do we have a
timeline for when we are going to talk about it. And could we
stick with this time. We keep saying we
will keep the operating down the road
we have terms of this deal is the
timeline probably operating conversation?
The farebox ain’t going to offset dollar ride. » Certain terms are being discussed –much-needed
investment that does include upgrade instead of good repair.
» Thank you. » For you to staff when it comes to traffic management
during the construction.
» Both changes come through counsel. We have no sense of the province changing
that. » That will come through here. Appropriation. Major enforcers or projects usually resulting
preparation act. Other any movements to change that.
» Those kinds of medicine going to be discussed with the province right now in terms of
their ability to speed up construction of the projects. That is clearly
legislation that there governed by. How they choose to address it
something that I’m sure we will talking about. » Is a segue into my next
question. What we are seeing the force it is a framework for
negotiation. Does a master agreement come back to us on purple pages or
what is the next step? » Master agreement comes back
to you. My goal is always to be in public and transparent as humanly
possible. » Civic improvements and we’ve
done some better links projects in the past we were
shocked after the liberty projects sent
us a bill for $90 million for specific improvements. We protected in
the framework going forward that will be on
the hook for civic improvements although we mutually negotiated.
» Through the speaker, as I answered at committee, the projects will all
have negotiated budget or civic or public realm improvements.
And other kinds of improvements the city may have a cost we
would expect to be involved in negotiating or confirm the details of those. As opposed to
being surprised by bill. » That’s on a case-by-case basis. In a
negotiated resolution? » Those sorts of things having a project by
project basis. » Okay. » Fair enough.
» Design work. We poured millions into the was
once the downtown relief line now the Ontario line. Cost recovery
on design work, is on the arrangement to recover
some of the cost that we put in on that project? » There is a commitment that
the province want to take with us a financial review
reconciliation look at reimbursing reasonable costs incurred. The
work done by the city TCC previously. » You will be reporting back on
that. Environmental assessments are long expensive but I
understand the province is going to expedite environmental assessment
process. If you could confirm whether that is correct. And whether that new
policy of getting these done quicker and less expensive will
also cover other infrastructure projects that would try to get done
around the city. » To your first question I have
no details to share with you right now in terms of all the
efforts that the going to take to speed up the construction of the
project and specifically in terms of environmental
assessment. The terms of your second question if you could
repeat it quickly. » Whether we can use the same
approach of expediting and keeping the cost down
environmental assessments to move it under other areas what we do here including
stormwater management, basement flooding, construct projects the
require environmental assessments. And we wait and we
wait. We wait.
» The nature of the conversation that we are having
specific to these transit projects I
don’t think there’s an expectation that will be
unilaterally able to extend whatever relief is provided to
other infrastructures. » Okay. Thank you very much. » Deputy Mayor. » Answer. In your opinion is Ontario line
a viable project? » Yes.
» What extent does about fried relief to line 1? » Extensive capacity to 2041.
» Provides-have provides more relief to line 1 and the relief line South?
» That is correct. » How much more relief is provided by the
Ontario line? » Interline by trumping north of the
Danforth provides about 700 additional persons of relief on line 1 north of the station.
» Do you know how far along the planning was?
» Planning work still very early stages look a number of optional core doors. » Is it true that you had an even decided on what
the proper path was. I saw four or five different options for
what the refund would look like? » Have not yet selected one
corridor that’s correct. » You haven’t decided where it
was going to be built? » We had a general sense and interline
follows one of the options but we were looking at relief line
1. But no decision. » It was so preliminary you have
not even decided what path. » Had not yet plotted
recognition for Council’s decision on the corridor. No.
» This particular option has a firm decision and so it will get
will be built or his plan to be built far faster than we would
have been able to do it. » Certainly the projected timeline for construction is
sooner. » Thank you.
» Counselor. » City manager want to
understand how radical the plans are in front of us. Could you
explain to me, is Ontario line proposed similar to Eglinton crosstown
it’s built by Metro links. » Durable concept is not unlike
the Appleton crosstown. » Promises building essentially Metro links.
» Correct. » There going to own it. » Is that any different from
the Ontario line? » That is the Ontario line.
» They are similar. Somebody brought up this idea about subsidy. It
cost more to run the subways. How much of province subsidizing the
crosstown? » From an operating standpoint?
» Operating. Maintenance. » Those are details are being
worked out. To my understanding, the operating
sterling on our back.
» But is a pattern here that is a process to work out the men’s agreements. With
the Appleton crosstown. We can’t planning the same thing with the Ontario
line? » Yes I would hope we do it sooner.
» Any idea why we’d demand operating in the subsidy? » I think you raise a very
important point. Hindsight being what it is, these are the kinds
of conversations I think we want to have at the table of the province
right now. » I pay my transit fare. We’ve
extended our subway into York. What’s being
discussed is another extension. It’s not that radical. Am I paying for
the operating subsidy of serving nice people that live up in New
York region? » I think you are. » Are they giving us anything?
» We certainly work in Toronto. The supporting the local
employment. » My point is so there was an
operating operating subsidy from them. It’s on my
tax bill somewhere. » Correct.
» The province will be expecting to sit down with the principalities look at the full
range of costs that they should be expected to bear whether it
be related to the building the operation maintenance.
Those were very specific conversation we had at the table. Believing that to
be an expectation from the Council that others have
benefited from the projects we pay.
» This is really important intergovernmental work
that you’re doing the team is doing. This is talk about
technology subway lines on maps but also notion about policy between the two
governments about who pays for what. The point I want to make sure I
fully understand and leave with is got a good pattern set with the crosstown.
The promises building that province is building Ontario line. The
result in operating subsidy but we’ve agreed with an
interesting transit will make it work. As a counselor should I expect the same counter line because the
parents are you got something to go on you got a
relationship with the government already. Can we expect all sorts of
things to continue. » They will continue but as I say I think we’ve
learned from the crosstown expect that we would do things to be a bit
faster and more precise with some of the interest we have. » May be even better with delta
Air Lines because of our experience maybe the provinces of the same
expense as well. I’m not talking about the political side
but the people that work for the city that
deliver the projects. As a pattern out
there this experience out there though it’s got a different label
different technology the project idea is the same.
» I believe that’s correct. » Thank you. » Counselor.
» Thank you. Extension Scarborough ‘s comp extension for the one-stop
estimated opening date is 2026-2027? Is that correct? » That’s correct.
» The three-star what is the expectation to open?
» 2029 and 2030. » About two or three years
delay. » That’s correct. » Has there been a discussion of
the table that they are going to open open up in phases. Open it and then
they could open the next two? » That’s one of the discussions
were going to have for the province and how they can actually the design
implementation but there’s no strategy out there saying they’re going to
open in phases. » Are they going to use the same design or using
different designs? » We are evaluating the design. To determine which could be
used. » They will be referring to the one-stop design before they go
to a brand-new design. » (Inaudible) Appeared.
» Thank you. Counselor. » The capacity of line 1, what was
especially the relief time? Anticipated capacity of the
relief line. » Our plans for the relief line
calls for conventional six car long subway
train similar to what we run online one. If were able to
operate that every 19 seconds we be able
to carry about 44,000 people per hour. » In the Ontario line what are we.
» Anticipating? » I heard a number 2041
earlier. The life of line 1 buckpassing 11 would be maintained for
certain number of years. I don’t know what that was a reference to. » The ridership share is done by
Metro links in the city. » If we do nothing.
» That comes from existing development. Also positive outlets along there.
» Is that with the scenario that we built on Caroline?
» That’s correct. » What happens when we build the
relief time. What with a life or extended life be?
» Leaf line itself south provided some relief but not provided any relief north of
the station Ontario line provide some relief.
» What would do that to extend life?
» Because of the pattern shifts and changes peak
point of line 1 shifts where it is today north of the station as result does not
solve the pinpoint problem. » How many buses do we have?
» More than 2000 buses. And we operate about 1700 buses. What’s the
rate of buses that are out on the streets delivering service? » Reschedule about 1660 buses
in the morning rush-hour. » We own about 2000 buses. We have about 12%
spare buses. » Is that a good ratio? » How many buses do we need to
keep the line running? » Sketch plans for mediated
long-term coffee was a between 50 and 60
buses in service. Provide appropriate capacity between
Scarborough center station in Kennedy station. » That’s not leaving a lot of wiggle room.
We would probably need a lot more buses to accommodate. » Yes. Requires additional
feed also requires some additional maintenance facilities.
» Additional maintenance facilities and fleet. Was a limiting agent on
how big a buses can be? Limiting ability
operate buses having sufficient garages minutes capacity in
order to house and service the buses. » On the financing the province
takes onto their books Ontario line and the three and the three stop where does
that leave us in cash? What do we have sitting there?
» People talk about a $5 billion. What is it? » Presently councils fully
funded the Scarborough East extension.
About one $2 billion. It’s done through bylaw as well as a levy.
» Dedicate levy. » The city building fund. What
does that do to R

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